WIN176. Generational Wealth Through Rentals with Joel Miller

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Trent: Welcome back to another episode of the deal deep dive segment on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. In this segment, our future guests will share their unique stories on a specific deal they've invested in. We will dive deep into finding the deal, financing the deal, writing an offer, and the due diligence. Do us a solid and smash that subscribe button, leave us a rating, and share this episode.

And now let's dive deep. Welcome back to the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. On today's episode, we're joined by Joel Miller. Joel is the author of bestselling book, build real estate wealth.

Enjoy the journey of rental property investment. Joel's gonna share about this book and even read you an excerpt from it in the middle of the episode. Joel's also gonna talk about his investment career and how he has invested in long term rentals, He's flipped houses and he is a hard money lender now. He's also gonna share how he transferred his skills and his knowledge and his abilities between those three facets of real estate investing and being a full time disc jockey for thirty five years. He's gonna share how you can have a full time passion or job and be a real estate investor at the same time.

Now let's welcome Joel Miller. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have Joel Miller joining the Westside Investors Network podcast today. Joel, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us.

Joel: Fran, this is awesome, man. I've been looking forward to this. And you and I were talking beforehand. I think that what my areas of interest are, know, in my in my book and so on are exactly what your typical audience is for your podcast. So I I hope we can give some, valued content to them today.

Trent: So, and I'm excited to talk about your book. I'm also excited to talk about Joel Miller, your investment career, your timeline. Not every day I get to talk to a published author, successful author. So I'm excited

Joel: to hear that's Miller.

Trent: Yep. I'm excited to hear more about all the different aspects that make up Joel Miller. People that that don't know who Joel Miller is, what can you tell them? Who are or who is Joel Miller?

Joel: Well, first of all, I'm in Erie, Pennsylvania, which is right along Lake Erie, about halfway between Cleveland and Buffalo, North Pittsburgh. And I am in my forty eighth year as a landlord. And about 1991, I started flipping houses before flip was a real estate term, and according to the TV shows that used it. We used to call it quick turn. I flipped over 100 houses, and eventually in 2018 got into hard money lending, which really gives me a lot of satisfaction to be a part of the equation for other investors whenever they're doing flip projects or buy and hold projects that they need to purchase and renovate and so on.

And then in COVID, I had a little time on my hands. I started taking notes for what eventually became Build Real Estate Wealth, Enjoy the Journey of Rental Property Investment, which is my bestselling book that came out finally last fall after a few more years of writing and production and so on. And four sixty pages long, which is longer than the usual book in that genre. That's normally 200 or 300 pages, but that's because it covers a lot more than just acquisition and management and property and so on. So we decided to own it.

Somebody said, Hey, it's too big. I said, You know, I just can't stop. I gotta put it all in there. So it's right on the cover. It says the big book on rental property investing.

And it's becoming really a go to resource for people that wanna change their lives with real estate. I'm sure you probably know who Ron Legrand is, sort of the guru of gurus. Like a lot of the people that are out there that you know of that are teaching real estate, he was their guru. He's in his later 70s now, but he's still active, and he got ahold of the book and reviewed it, and his quote is, I love to use this, he says, I wish I would have had his book when I was getting started. For all of who Ron LeGrande is, that's what Ron had to say.

So but it's really the kind of book that the people that are reviewing it say this, that you don't just read it, put it on your shelf and say, hey, I know it's good. No, it's on my shelf now. It's the kind of book you read and you park on your desk because you're going to refer to the stuff that's in here. It's written for the established investor who wants to supercharge the portfolio they already have. They're looking for some game changing information.

But it's also written for people that are just starting out, and even for people who don't even think that real estate is for them. I mean, that's a thing. Might know about real estate and you might think that you can't do it. But with what I provide in there education wise, you can. And one of the reasons why I can say that is that there's over- I mean, it takes you from mindset that you need to be in when you're thinking about investing in property before you even form your entity even, and then it takes you through entity formation, which is kind of the next step, because you need to do that really before you go out and making offers on property.

In case your offer gets accepted, your entity better be up and running, you know? But beyond that, it does talk about the standard stuff as far as acquiring property, finding and financing deals, preparing a property to either rent or sell, and then finding the right tenants, which is big. I tell you, if you would ask me what what is the main thing I think people have to get good at when they're in the rental business, I would say it is tenant selection. Because you know how to you may know how to do all the other stuff like find property, work on property, manage your back office, you know, whatever else you're good at, financing. If you don't know how to select the right people that are gonna be in that property that's very valuable for an extended period of time without your direct supervision, you're not gonna have a good time in this business.

So I spend a lot of time on tenant selection, which, you know, I will, on the aside, say to this that tenant selection actually begins when you are thinking about the possibility of maybe perhaps buying some rental property. Because every decision you make after that, like where it is, what type of property it is, how old it is, how you are preparing the property, how you're advertising the property, Every decision that you make like that is further narrowing the possible universe of people who may want to be attracted to living. It's pretty well through the tenant selection process that you actually start what I call tenant screening. Now screening would be when you become face to face or on the phone with somebody who's actually a live person that's actually interested, or you're emailing with them or whatever, depending on how you've got your lead capture set up. But then that's where a lot of skill comes in.

You know, a lot of the things up to that point are just kind of decisions that you made, like about the property. But when you are interfacing with the people, that's a skill that really has to be developed so that you end up, number one, not, let's say you're getting phone calls from ads, or let's just say that's the scenario. Number one, you're waiting on a lot of people on the phone and you're not having a lot of showings. And by the time you have a showing, it's the right people and you don't have a lot of showings and you get to, you know, typically that application would be approved. So anyway, spend a lot of time on that.

I even go into tax implications, running a rental property business and preparing financial statements for the bank to look good. Should tell you, and I'm gonna go into my back story here in a little bit, but I have a degree in accounting. And so, I spent a lot of time in this book, in my- I don't want to call my tricks, but my techniques for preparing financial statements to look good to the bankers. That's really important, because Trent, you and I both know this business runs on OPM, other people's money, also known as leverage. And yes, some of it might be from private lenders.

Yes, some of it might be from sellers, but at some point, you got to interface with a bank, and especially with bigger properties. And so you don't want to have 20 and 30 year old kids in the underwriting department that don't understand your business and can't read your financial statement making decisions about your financial future, right? I mean, that's it. You wanna make it as clear for them as possible. So we go on with a little bit after the whole how to stuff with a discussion about the differences between riches and wealth.

You know, riches is kind of like having the money, wealth is being able to do the right things with the money, you know, and best practices for you running your business and your life in general, a lot of cool stuff in there. And there's also a bonus chapter in there on house flipping, although this is a book on rentals, but it's a how to book on house flipping, and you get to the end of it, there's a QR, excuse me, there's a chapter about house flipping. When you get to the end of it, there's a QR code that only the people that have the book can get on to go to bonus material for the how to about house flipping. So it's a little bit extra. I didn't wanna put that all in the book, the how to stuff for house flipping, but it's in there.

But I guess I would just conclude by saying that nobody that's listening should think that this sort of book is only for beginners or something like that, and that they won't find any game changing info in there, you will, because it contains over 150 checklists of everything from, like, the questions you ask during tenant screening, the questions you would ask references that tenants gave you, questions to ask contractor, what to do for due diligence when you're looking at buying a property, points for negotiating techniques. They're checklists, easy reference, and that's why it's a reference book. But anyway, that's what it's about. You asked me about my backstory. There's a little backstory that you wanted.

You wanted to get my timeline, right? Because How did this come about?

Trent: Yeah, because in your bio, talks about house flipping and obviously long term investing. And I was curious, did you start flipping houses or did you start buying rentals?

Joel: Buying rentals. Bought my first rental in 1978, flipped my first house in 1991. But it goes back to there were two really specific things that happened to me in junior high that set my path for the two main things that I've done in life. Number one, an investor built four, four unit townhouse style apartment buildings on my paper route. So of course, I got all those tenants as customers on my paper route.

But I have a distinct memory in my room in about eighth grade, like doing the math on how this whole rental property thing works, because we lived in a just a middle class subdivision where the kids live with their parents who own their house. So this whole rental building that they build at the edge of the subdivision, I was like new. I'm thinking like, Okay, so those people don't own that, but they pay to be there and they pay more than what it costs to operate. Whatever rudimentary understanding I could make of it at the time, I said, you know, I think I want to do that. And I put that in my back pocket.

The other thing that happened about the same time was some older kid in the neighborhood built a pirate radio station in his basement. Now, pirate radio station is like an unlicensed, illegal FM station, you know, and I got to hang out there. And that's where I decided to become a DJ. So I actually did get into radio production in high school and went away to college to get a degree in accounting at a college that had a good radio program and about, I mean, radio club, you know. And about halfway through college, I got hired at the big radio station back in my hometown.

So I came back here to finish college and I was working weekends. And just before I graduated from college, I went full time and I was no longer the weekend part time guy. So I was able to take the calls from the kids at the schools that wanted the DJs to come out and do the sock offs or record hops, you know, in their gym. And so I actually ended up pioneering the mobile DJ business in this part of the country. I did 5,051 appearances over thirty five years and retired from that in 2011.

And that is a big part of the premise of the book, which is that real estate does not have to be an eitheror thing. You can add rental real estate to some other thing that you have a passion for, career you didn't want to give up. I wanted to be a full time entertainer, and I probably could have done more in real estate if I didn't spend as much time as I did doing appearances, you know, but I wanted to do that. And then after I retired from that, of course, I continued on with real estate and so on. But people sometimes make that mistake, you know, in thinking that they have a full time job, so they probably can't handle any rentals.

We cover how to do that, you know, because that is a total possible thing. And we cover what you would need to do if your objective was to leave your job as soon as possible. I mean, that is some people's objective. Some of your listeners are probably thinking, hey, I want to do this to get to the point where I don't have to go to my J O B, which stands for Just Over Broke. So anyway, I did have an accounting practice for a while after college, but I had to sell that because the DJ business and the rental property stuff was getting bigger.

And then, like I say, about 1991, started flipping houses. In 2018, began hard money lending, and then the book came out, and here I am on your podcast talking all about it.

Trent: So what made you want to flip houses? I mean, that's not necessarily a normal progression for someone that starts in long term investing, so I'm curious what drove you to eventually flip I over

Joel: think that when I was starting, I was reading hardcover books by guys like Al Lowry and Bill Nickerson. Bill Nickerson was Ron Legrand's mentor. I think so far back that goes. And that's how I learned, because there was no Internet. There was eventually we had those late night half hour cable TV real estate guru infomercials, you know, that you could buy the cassette tape course with the manual to come like with 12 cassettes that you follow through the manual.

But they weren't talking so much about flipping. They were talking about buy and hold stuff. And also, I realized that it takes, at least I thought at the time it would take more money to get into the flipping because the typical scenario is that you pay all cash for the property and you pay all of your own money for the rehab, and then you sell it for profit. Well, you got to have that money. Now, with the advent, like I am myself, hard money lenders, I typically, even with my regular customers that have lots of wealth from doing this, mean, it's just their standard practice that they borrow money from me for 100% of the purchase price and 100% of the rehab costs.

They pay the freight on the hard money, and it's just part of doing business. And they sell the place and walk away with a check. So I guess the answer to your question is that number one, it just wasn't talked about as much to do flipping. And number two, I didn't know how to get the money. But my first few houses were partnering with other people.

It was truly a three way partnership where the other two guys put up the money and I did all the work. And we split the profits three ways. But after two or three of those, I finally had my own pile that I could use to to you know, make my own investments. I think the fourth flip I did, I was on my own after that. And now here's a word from our sponsor.

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Trent: And and I'm I'm assuming because having long term investments myself and flipping houses myself, I'm assuming the the unit turns or the the renovations that you did on your long term investments, you know, related or transferred those skills and knowledge transferred to when you actually started flipping houses? You knew how to find contractors and

Joel: Yeah.

Trent: The order of operations and everything like that. Right?

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Initially, my dad, who was able to retire early and was able to help me. Was a great experience, because he never owned any property other than the house we lived in. But he had a lot of skills that he taught me for, let's call them handyman skills.

That's a point that needs to be made, is that you don't have to know how to do everything. When you're operating rentals or doing flips, you just have to know who to call. Everybody has their level of personal desire and skill level for their own involvement. Like they'll want to do X, Y and Z at a flip or rehab for rental and they're hiring everything else. You know, it eventually got to the point where, like, for several decades now, if I can't fix it with a glue gun, goop glue, duct tape, or a screw gun, I'm calling some, you know?

So that's part of what you learn, like in my book about contractors. In fact, I just spoke last week at the Mr. Landlord National Convention, and they asked me to the theme this year was more income and less drama. And they asked me to speak in the less drama category on how to deal with contractors. And I basically just lifted that out of the book.

So, but yes, the skills, as I would guess anybody in your audience that would get started in this, there's a learning curve and it's usually a twofold learning curve. One is your own skills are being increased and the other is your skill of choosing other people to do work increases.

Trent: Yeah. And I agree completely with that. I won't paint anymore because I hate painting, but other things I do enjoy.

Joel: But Yeah. You know, what turns out is I am a really, really good painter. I just hate to do it. So I know.

Trent: But but when you start I mean, when you start running it as a business where you have multiple units, you have more doors, it's becoming almost too much for you to handle yourself. The skill then becomes how do you find contractors and then how do you keep them on schedule so you're not getting killed by vacancy or time.

Joel: Yeah, not only that, but the managing of the properties once they're up and running and the managing of the tenants. Tenant management and property management are two different distinct things, you know. But the thing is that nowadays we have a variety of computer programs for managing your property and encompass varying scope of the things you need to do from lead capture to you know, sending an eviction notice, let alone keeping track of your rent payments and expenses, you know, it's much easier now than when I started, you did everything by hand, you know.

Trent: And speaking of property management, tenant management, are you self managing everything or do you have a property management company?

Joel: I have always self managed because that was just my preference. I expanded slow enough that I could just keep taking things on. And I have to say, in my case, the DJ business, my commitments were evenings, weekends, you know, and that left me during the day, during the week to monkey with properties. You know, not everybody has that luxury with their passion that they want to hang on to. They might be stuck with a nine to five, Monday through Friday full time job.

But that does not mean that you can't take on rental property that can increase your income along the way and bolster your retirement. That maybe the passion you have is not giving you. Absolutely. So but and then and then I will point out that the other progression is that after you start getting some of those big checks from flipping, then you turn around and use those profits to buy more rental properties for the long term monthly income and so on. Because obviously flipping is project by project, you just get one check at the end of the job.

Trent: And and one of the I can't remember exactly how it lays out, but progression of wealth creation or whatever talks about, you know, you're you're beginning in your journey, your growth phase, and then you're in your preservation phase or your protection phase, whatever it may be. So the growth phase for you was investment properties and flipping. And now maybe the the protection or preservation phase is more on the debt side. How did you know when it was time or when you wanted to get from the the I'm only making money when I work on the flips from the the, you know, long term investment, making money continuously to making money on the debt side?

Joel: Well, I knew when it was time to retire from the DJ business. It was the perfect time, 2011, and I would have had to make a lot of reinvestment in equipment as things were shifting more toward storing your music on a hard drive as opposed to vinyl, you know, and CDs and so on. And all the lighting was moving to LEDs. And so that, you know, that was a break point there. I wanna gave that up and then that was the obvious thing to do following that would be to just involve myself more in the flips and the rentals.

And so that progressed for a while. And the lending business almost came about by accident, because one of the other investors, and I will tell you who it is, it's the guy who wrote the bonus chapter in the book on the 10 ways to finance property in real estate, Steve Zumigail is his name. And I've known him since he was a little kid, because his mom has been the only realtor, she's my age, and she's the only realtor that I have ever used, you know, to and sell any of my property, any of flips or whatever. So he had a desire to borrow some money for a project and actually got all prepared with a script and it was all charged up, came over to my house, sat down the kitchen table, got pictures out for his other projects. A little while into this, I realized what was going on, and I knew I would give him the money anyway, but I just let him go with it.

And, and I he he tells it, I think at the end, I said, so you did all this, just ask me if I'd lend you some money on property. And he said, Yeah, I said, Okay, that's fine. That was it. You know, I gave him that loan. And through that experience, it was a combination of kind of learning about that and experiencing it, and word getting around among the other investors.

And it was a little slow that first year. Now it has, have sort of through the back door, I've been taken out of the house flipping business because I never have any money left over for my own projects. There's just always so many projects that the other guys come to me with that I'm just happy to just, you know, let the cash out for their projects. I kind of got fired, while I was on vacation, so to speak, from the house flipping business. Not that I wouldn't flip a house if there was cash available and something dropped on my lap, but I no longer actively look for property.

And I should tell you another aspect of this. In 2020, when I started taking notes on what I wanted to write about, it was becoming apparent that my then 14 year old son was going to want to follow me into this business. He's my only kid. And so I have to say that I wrote this book as though he might be the only person that ever reads it, because it was not written for a nameless, faceless buyer of a book that I would never meet and who would never see me in person to hold me accountable for what was in there. The person I wrote this book for lives down the hall and holds me accountable.

And so there's nothing in there that I wouldn't tell my own son to do and nothing that I haven't done or I wouldn't do if I had the opportunity to do. And so to bring you up to speed on this, he graduated from high school last year, 2024, bought his first rental property about a week after he got out of high school, and he bought his there was a three unit, he bought his second, it was a two unit, about a month. That's awesome. You know, he's on the path.

Trent: And one question I have for you, because you have experienced in a few different niches of the investment real estate world. Do you think that there's a right or wrong or a better, best, worst one to start in? As someone that's just wanting to get into real estate and they're hearing these three different options, is there a is there a best route to take to start?

Joel: Well, the first thing I would tell you is that you don't you have to understand you don't need to know everything. Whatever it is that you wanna pursue, whether it's vine hold or flips or whatever, storage business, who knows, you don't have to know everything. You only get caught up in the paralysis of analysis, know, like Colin Powell, General Colin Powell led arguably the world's most powerful army. And he's quoted as saying, We made our decisions when we knew about 70% of what there was to know about a situation. And he's talking about war, and we're talking about buying a piece of property, you know?

So don't think that you have to keep going to just one more seminar or one more bootcamp or one more this or that before it's okay for you to start investing. You just need to take the step, take action, and beyond action, commit. You know, you can have take action and then not follow through, and you know, that's still just as bad as not doing anything. You might even make an even bigger mess, you know, if you quit partway through. So understand that, that you don't need to know everything, you just need to get around other people that are doing what you have, or they have done what you're doing or what you want to do, you know, and you will learn the next level as you need to know the next level as you go through this.

You know, you're talking about the right or wrong way? I don't know if there is, but I would say that you got to follow your heart, follow your interests. You got to do something you're interested in, and just get going and keep it rolling. But I do have a chapter in the book called 0 to $10,000 a month in net cash flow. And it takes a fictitious investor from It's a guy making $40,000 a year, and he's a tenant.

And he goes from 0 to $10,000 several years later. And in that scenario, I'd say is the best recommendation for people who are at that point. And that is to buy a multiunit place where you live in one unit and rent out the others and then move on to another property, maybe a single family home, but you don't sell that first property. Now you rent out the one you used to live in too. Now, some people listening to this are already selling, they've already got their own home, have disposable income, they're making a good, and they wanna move into real estate, then you have an advantage, that's all.

You have more of an advantage to start putting money away and spending less than you make and work in a system, you know, whatever. If you're that far along down the pipeline that you just simply have an advantage timelines of somebody that is a tenant for somebody else and making not a lot of money.

Trent: Yeah. What's what's interesting because I I started in long term buy and hold investments and then, you know, eventually flipped houses because I I felt like I could do it. And I've done a lot of project management, so it wasn't that scary for me. Mhmm. But a lot of people, I think, when they're first starting out, when they hear the word flip, they see big numbers, which mean potentially big disaster.

Joel: Right.

Trent: But for the buy and hold strategy, it's a more conservative investment. You're not looking at the return in six months. You're looking at the return in ten years. Mhmm. And I feel like mentally, if someone's looking at that and comparing the two, they can they can justify the long term investment because if something does go wrong for a month or two months or three months, know they can figure out how to get it back on track for that ten year, timeline, right?

Joel: Right. Real estate is very forgiving. And you mentioned something going wrong for a month. I assume like you're talking about like all your units are vacant or something like that. But I think also with rentals, you can make more mistakes in a rehab part of journey than you can with a flip because the result with a flip is very immediate.

Like you spent $5,000 more on this flip last month than you should have. And as opposed to like with a rental, if that was the same, you know, rehab, that it would take a lot longer, you would have a lot longer to absorb that overspending, you know, over the years that you operated the the rental.

Trent: Absolutely. I was gonna also say, when you're when you're flipping a house, I feel like everyone has a plan A. Right? Mhmm.

Joel: So Okay. And that lasts like five minutes.

Trent: Yeah. Everyone should have multiple plans all

Joel: the way down to

Trent: plan B. But when you're flipping a house, your plan is to get in and out, make your money, all that good stuff. And plan B is if it doesn't sell or doesn't sell for what you want, refinance it, rent it out. The other side on the long term investment is if it's not going the way you want it to or your plan is not going accordingly, you can either stick with that plan because like you said, you have a longer time period to absorb that those headaches, or you could list it for sale. So in my the way I look at it is there's always a backup plan that's really not that bad.

Joel: Yeah, I had to go to plan B on about five or six properties that were originally single family homes originally bought as a flip that one way or another at the end of the project, either through, you know, possibly inadvertently paying too much for the property, or inadvertently spending too much on the property for the rehab, or a change in the market that I couldn't predict, like 2008, that I ended up just keeping the property and renting it over a long period of time and ending up making far more money from the rent. Then now, if I were to sell any of those properties today, it would make way more money than I would have made if I had actually successfully sold it as an average flip back then. Of course, you have to have a plan to carry that, like either just if you've got your own money sunk in the flip to just leave it there and not worry about taking it out, or to get it financed for with long term financing because you've decided it's going to be a rental and, you know, use the proceeds from that to get your your money back that you used to buy it and fix it.

So.

Trent: Yeah. Well, and I guess the point that I was trying to make is investing or or investing in real estate to begin with or changing paths or trying to supercharge your your portfolio can seem daunting, can seem scary. But when you take a step back and realize that the plan the plan b, c's, and d's are really not gonna Right. You know, not gonna kill you, then

Joel: The the key is education. I got I got something here. In my cheat sheet. I'll just read to you. It says education removes fear.

The lack of fear creates confidence. Confidence minimizes discouragement from setbacks. Not feeling discouraged means regrets are quickly forgotten. Sometimes you win and sometimes you learn. So either way, you're further ahead having learned one more thing not to fear.

So I like that. And that's very education.

Trent: That's very true. Yeah. Well, Joel, is there anything else that you wanna share with our audience today, our listeners?

Joel: Well, the book as we, I think, mentioned at the beginning, Build Real Estate Wealth, and the subtitle is Enjoy the Journey of Rental Property Investment, is available on Amazon and about 15 other platforms. You can easily find it online if you search for my name or the name of the book. But you can also go to the website that's dedicated to the book, and that's very simple. It's joelemillerbooks.com. It's j o e l m I l l e r b o o c k s.

Joel: on the homepage there, you can click on a button and it'll show you the entire table of contents, which is fairly detailed. So you can see what we're covering here before you'd say, yeah, I think I need that. Or there's another button that actually gives you sample content, the two or three medius paragraphs from each chapter, so you can see that. And, the buy buttons that are on there simply take you to the page on Amazon where it's for sale. But, I can also be found on Facebook, Instagram, X, and LinkedIn.

And if you just Google me, be careful though, you might end up with a lot of information about a video game character with the same name. You know, I should learn the name of that game and be able to say what it is and people go, Oh yeah, he's the guy that got killed. You know, so

Trent: I gotta look it up now.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah, Joel Miller video game, that'll get you a whole other Joel Miller. But, yeah, joelmillerbooks.com. Build real estate wealth. Enjoy the journey of rental property investment.

Trent: And we will definitely I will definitely encourage all of our listeners to go check out your website, check out the book. I feel like you did a great job explaining how this book can benefit both the newer investor as well as a seasoned investor that's looking for some extra powder in in for there to to kick start the west of their journey and add to their portfolio. I will myself be going to the website as soon as we get off this call and learning more about it. So, Joel, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story and about your book today.

Joel: Trent, I appreciate you having me. It was my pleasure. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Trent: Thanks, Joel.

Intro speaker: Yeah. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Real Estate Professionals Investing Podcast on Wynn, your community of investing knowledge for growth. Hope that this episode has increased your knowledge and added value to your path to freedom. If you would, please take a second to rate us so that we can get more great investors to interview. If you or someone that you know wants to be on, please visit westsideinvestors.com and fill out our form to be on the show.

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