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WIN Ep157. From Closing Deals to Creating Wealth: A Broker’s Journey to Syndication with Will Matheson

Writer's picture: AJ ShepardAJ Shepard

Intro speaker: Welcome to the Westside Investors Network. Win, your community of investing knowledge for growth. This is the Real Estate Professionals Investing podcast for real estate professionals by real estate professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career, investing. Thank you for listening. And please, if you like our content, rate us on your podcast provider. Just a quick disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are for educational purposes only and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any shares or securities, make or consider any investments, or take any other action. Trent Werner: Welcome back to another episode of the Deal Deep Dive segment on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Werner. In this segment, our featured guests will share their unique stories on a specific deal they've invested in. We will dive deep into finding the deal, financing the deal, writing an offer, and the due diligence. Do us a solid and smash that subscribe button, leave us a rating, and share this episode. And now, let's dive deep. Welcome back to the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Werner. On today's episode, we're joined by Will Mathison, Mathison Capital. Based out of South Carolina, Will and his twin brother run and own Mathison Capital. They currently have over a $100,000,000 in assets under management. And today, we're gonna hear about Will's journey from starting as a broker with a commercial brokerage and turning that into a multifamily syndication that owns over a $100,000,000 in real estate. Now let's welcome Will Mathison. Alright, Will Mathison joining the Westside Investors Network podcast today. Will, thanks for thanks for hopping on and chatting with us. Will Matheson: Thank you for having me, Trent. Trent Werner: So Will Matheson is a cofounder of Matheson Capital. You wanna give a quick shout out to Mathison Capital and your guys' your guys' business? Will Matheson: So I run oh, well, I should say, Matheson Capital is a real estate investment firm. We're based in Charleston. We own in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia oh, no. Not Virginia. Georgia into Alabama. And, you know, we've been buying since 2018. Run it with my twin brother, Evan. That's, that's the short version. Trent Werner: I love it. I love when brothers work together in real estate. That's how our company started. Not my brothers, but 2 brothers started Uptown Properties, and, I've seen how the family brother relationship can work in real estate. So that's awesome. So, Will It's Will Matheson: been great. Trent Werner: You and your brother obviously partnered for this real estate journey. Did you guys have the same, I guess, launchpad or or process to get into real estate, or what was your what was your journey to get into real estate? Will Matheson: So, I mean, you know, by by virtue of being twins, we have had almost entirely the same life experiences outside of, we went to different colleges. And out of college, Evan started working as a mortgage broker in Marks and Millichap, or for Marks and Millichap in New Jersey. I, it took me a while to really find a job after college, but he ended up helping me get a job at Marks and Millichap in North Carolina. A few months into that, he moved from New Jersey to North Carolina. So we were both brokers at Marcus and Millichap, doing retail primarily with a little student housing, a little multifamily throughout the Carolinas. And, you know, we did that for a while. We were on the top team, not the lead agents, but the 2nd and third on that team. I wanna say we did at least 50 investment sales transactions during a 2 year period. And then we left to so early 2017, we left Marks and Millichap. We went to Columbia University for their master's in real estate development program, 1 year program, and while we were in that program, that's when we started buying, and, that's when we started buying real estate, in part because one of our classmates found an opportunity that we thought was pretty good. Back in North Carolina, we had actually placed a hard money loan that was the founding of Madison Capital, had an investor, 1031 exchange, shortfall. They needed a $1,000,000 quickly, so we thought, why can't we raise it? Gave us some confidence. So then when one of our classmates was looking to buy an $800,000 property, they needed some partners, Evan and I got involved, Was that first deal January 2017, and, that gave us, you know, the loan gave us confidence, but doing that deal gave us a lot of confidence, and we eventually said, look, it's honestly pretty hard to find jobs right now. When we go out and try to build our own portfolio, raise money from investors, we'll start small, we'll scale it up over time. So it's a very long winded way of saying how we ended up here. Trent Werner: I appreciate it though. So you started with the duplex. I know you were brokers at Marcus and Millichap. Did any of those experiences? I'm assuming yes. But what experiences from Marcus and Millichap showed you and your brother that you can do this on your own? Will Matheson: So the first the first experience that really showed us that we could do it was placing the hard money loan. Like I mentioned, back in 2015, it must have been around August 2015, one of our investors had a very big 1031 exchange, and instead of doing all of it into one property, they split their exchange. And 30 days or so before closing, the second of the two properties, the lender said, hey, look, we're only gonna give you this much money, left them a $1,000,000 short. But because we had worked with them so many times, or I should say our team had worked with them so many times, we knew their full schedule of real estate. We knew they had strong personal net worths, things like that. So when our boss tasked us with going to find a hard money loan, we made a few calls, but then we were talking one time and we said, why don't we just go and try to raise the money? And that's what we did. That's what we did. And that was the first that that doing that gave us, you know, a lot of confidence in terms of, hey. We went out. We found money for this project. We put it down. It was successful. We held the loan for, like, 16 months. And the other thing that I always say about being a broker and working in Marks and Millichap is it has a few advantages in terms of getting into the ownership side of things. One is you are getting paid to learn more and more about real estate. You know? I I don't think it's controversial to say when you're, you know, 23, 24, you don't know a ton about what you're doing all the time. I don't think that's a controversial opinion. So getting essentially getting paid to get an education on, you know, which investments are working out, good pricing, underwriting, all that stuff, it's really helpful. And as it pertains to what Evan and I do now, cold calling cold calling for a job and just dealing with the constant rejection really translates nicely to raising equity because you will get rejected by a lot of investors who say, no. I don't wanna work with you. No. Go get more experience. No. I don't like this, that, or the other thing, but you just keep picking up the phone and asking. And that was, those 2 things or those 3 things really all paid big dividends for us. Trent Werner: I love the cold calling piece because I agree completely. I also like how, you know, you were tasked with this issue or problem and you had to go solve it in a short amount of time. And instead of, you know, just putting your tail between your legs and running away, you you put your boots on and you wouldn't figured it out, which I think is a very good skill to have in real estate, especially on the investment side, because most of the time you're going to have to solve problems. So I love you bringing that up right there. And then the third thing is, I feel like it's a lot. I don't want to say easier, but when you are getting paid to learn more about real estate, it's a lot easier to transition into where you guys are now instead of, you know, going and being an engineer before real estate investing. You because you're you're getting those skills that you're gonna actually put to use when you do go out and start your own capital company or investment company. Will Matheson: Yeah. I mean, I I will say you see quite a few people, you know, who have been in, like, the medical field or some other field where they might have a really they have a really good network, and they do teach themselves the real estate side of things when they're getting into it, which, you know, I'll be honest, it's incredibly impressive to me. We had, we had kind of the opposite perspective where we got a really good real estate education from work, but I'll be honest, the network we didn't build much of an investor network by being brokers because when you're a broker, you're talking to a bunch of owners who are used to owning. They're not used to being limited partners. So we've only had a handful of people from our brokerage days come in as investors in our company today. But like I said, there there's always trade offs. There's always there's always a trade off, but we got the educational part of it. Trent Werner: So after the 2 unit, after the duplex, where did you guys go from there? Will Matheson: So I I can go as we talked before this started, I can literally go deal by deal in so the duplex was January 2018. We bought a 6 unit deal in May of 2018. Both of those were sold by the end of 2019. We bought another 6 unit deal 29 January 2019, 15 units February 2019, 24 units in December of that year, then we bought 32 units in, I want to say, March 20, 2020, another 32 units in September of 2020, and then 69 units in Jan in, March of 2021. So that was that was really the start of all those properties I just listed. We only own one of them still. All the rest of them, the longest hold period I think we had was 26 months or 28 months, something to that effect. We are really focused on short term hold periods, buying, selling, adding the value, delivering returns back to investors so we could show future investors that nice full cycle. We took this deal from start to finish. This is the return we realized for our investors. Trent Werner: So, I mean, the the unit count that you just listed out for someone that is wanting to get into larger multifamily, a k a above 4 units, that it sounds like you snowballed pretty quickly. Two questions for you. 1, how did you do that? And 2, why did you do that? Will Matheson: So, okay. A lot of reasons there. How did we do it? I am a big at it's like what people say about having your first job being your most important job. My general philosophy has been that if you don't own anything in real estate and you want to go out there and buy it, if you go to the broker who's listing the $20,000,000 property, they already know everybody who owns other similar sized properties in the market and you have no track record. So the only way you're going to win that is by getting really aggressive on terms or overpaying. But if you start buying smaller assets, you know, you buy that 15 unit deal, the 30 unit deal, that does give you credibility when it comes to buying the bigger deal. And it also it's also generally a less competitive area of the market oftentimes. Maybe this is no longer the case, but oftentimes, it's the most inefficient part of the market. So you can do the most in terms of adding value in those spaces. So, you know, that's that's why we started in that space in terms of how were we able to scale. That was I mean, part of that really was the fact that we held the assets for such a short amount of time. We were able to go to the investors who invested with with us on our early deals and say, hey. Look. We did this deal. I took it from a to b. Here's my next project. Do you wanna get it join me on this one? Do you have anyone you would recommend I work with as well? You know, do you have any friends who might want to invest? So that was that was all part of the strategy. Trent Werner: Yeah. It's interesting that you bring that up because, you know, like our deals, for example, we're holding for, I think, the the shortest one we've held is 4 years now, maybe almost 4 years. And with you churning and burning that quickly, a lot of people might think, like, why are they just flipping all these deals? But you were able to show your track record, and those investors got the return so fast that I feel like they were more willing to refer their friends to you guys. Am I wrong? Will Matheson: Well, I definitely think that helped. I mean, there there are other reasons in it too, and we were very upfront with our investors about this. Like, when when Evan and I started, we did this full time. We we got rid of our brokerage licenses. We said, you know, we burned the ships. We said this is what we're gonna do, which was a huge step back financially. We made good money in brokerage, but and, you know, when you buy a $1,000,000 deal, the acquisition fee isn't really doing a lot. So part of the quick movement was to generate acquisition fees but also generate promotes. And, you know, like I said, we are very upfront with our investors about that. We had an incentive plan. The higher the IRRs we could get, the more returns we could get. So that was definitely a part of it. And, yes, to your point, today, when we work on projects today, we really do put more of a focus on cash flow and consistent dividends to investors. But when we got started, our philosophy was the way that we're gonna grow this company and grow our the size of our investments is not gonna be by telling a new investor, hey, we've made our quarterly distribution in the last 12 quarters. We wanted something that was gonna jump off the page a little bit more of, hey, our LPs are getting a 40% return in a year. And we think that worked out, but like I said, you know, we we do put more of a focus now on that long term 3, 5, 7 year hold cash flowing asset. Trent Werner: Yeah. And I and I I wanna go back to this this, I guess, goal that a lot of people have of going from 2 units to a 15 unit building. In certain markets, you know, that price point is higher than other markets. And so for a lot of people, when they hear 15 units, that might be $2,000,000, $3,000,000 How would someone go about getting to that 15 unit level if they think that it's just not feasibly financial or financially feasible? Will Matheson: So from very early on, we were working with outside investors, which obviously makes scale easier if you can raise money from other people, you have more resources to deploy elsewhere. So it's a big part of it. But, you know, being being direct and going back to the backstory, I was telling you, Evan and I, we spent a year in New York in grad school, and we left we left New York in part because we said to ourselves, you know, we're 25, we're 26 when we graduated. We're not gonna be able to raise tens of 1,000,000 of dollars. You know? This is this isn't tech. People don't give tens of 1,000,000 of dollars to 25 year olds. We need to we need to go to a place where the money will go further. So, you know, we started buying in the Carolinas, which are very they're very good markets. They're very in demand, but it's not, you know, a $1,000,000 in our 15 unit deal in South Carolina cost $1,150,000. In New York, maybe we'd be lucky to get a duplex with that money. So, you know, 2 ways to get it. If you wanna get more scale, you can go to where price you know, the same price, you can invest the same amount of money, but it's a lower price per unit or you can raise money from other people. 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That's that's great advice. And then my follow-up to that is I know you said you were you were based out of the Carolinas, still are based out of the Carolinas, South Carolina be specific, but you invest all over the Southeast, you know, and different markets, different states. How do you go about going to a different market, getting into a new market as an investor, if you want to make that, you know, maybe someone wants to make their money go further, so they need to identify a new market. How do you how do you make that happen? Will Matheson: So from 2019 through 2023, we invested in North and South Carolina. Those were those were our primary areas. I I was raised in South Carolina. I've lived in South Carolina since 2018. But from 2014 through to 2017, I lived in North Carolina, and that's where I was doing brokerage. So I got exposure to pretty much all of the Carolinas markets during that time. So that is where we focused, and we were able to invest in those markets because we were able to build really good relationships with brokers so that most of our acquisitions were off market. Off market, we weren't in bidding contests. As far as expanding outside of the Carolinas and picking up new markets, a lot of that had to do with just building more and more of a reputation. The first place we invested in Georgia was Savannah, Georgia, which is only 2 hours from Charleston. Quite frankly, it's closer than any North Carolina market we'd been investing in for the last 5 years. And the Alabama acquisition was really just a very opportunistic it was an opportunistic acquisition, and we had though we had never worked with a broker on that deal, we were well known to them and some of their teammates outside of Alabama, but their team in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. So that really helped us do that as well. Trent Werner: Okay. So kind of developing that regional relationship with these these teams and these brokers and brokerages that are servicing those areas. Will Matheson: That's a much more succinct way of putting it. Trent Werner: Because I have people that I've talked with in the past and we're we're in Portland, Oregon, so it's not a cheap market by any means. It's not crazy expensive, but it's definitely not, you know Will Matheson: It's pretty expensive. Trent Werner: Yeah. It is. But it's, you know, a lot of our our people that I know here, they want to get to new markets. We want to get to new markets. And so the biggest challenge that we've seen is developing those relationships with brokers where they're taking us serious, even though we have a pretty good sized portfolio here. Sometimes a lot of it's hard to build those relationships even when we have a $40,000,000 portfolio. You know? Will Matheson: So I'm gonna I'm gonna drill in on that a little bit. I shall drill on that in multiple ways going back to our Carolinas acquisition. So the first acquisition we did in South Carolina was a 15 unit property in Summerville, South Carolina. The next acquisition we did was 24 units in Charlotte. Funny enough, in 2022 or sorry, 2020, one of our 32 unit acquisitions was also in Somerville, South Carolina. The broker on that deal did not realize we already owned another asset in that market. He didn't know that, but he was aware of the fact because he knew the seller. He was aware of the fact that we had bought 24 units in Charlotte. So that even gave us credibility to buy the asset in Somerville, South Carolina. Somerville, for those of you don't who don't know, is part of the Charleston MSA. The acquisition we did in Savannah, Georgia was from Berkadia. Berkadia was the broker on that deal. We had bought a deal in in 2023, we bought deals in North Carolina and South Carolina in Berkadia, and we closed on the Georgia deal with Berkadia in 2024. And the Alabama deal, well, that was brokered by Cushman and Wakefield, who I have been talking to Cushman and Wakefield since 2019, but I have never done a deal with them. Mhmm. Actually, probably 2018. But they're aware of who we are because we've been active in the market in the southeast market more broadly. So, you know, we did have some credibility with them. One of the things I always tell people though is when it comes to markets and, you know, you're based in Portland, you're doing a lot of stuff in Portland, where are you looking to expand specifically? Like, which market is next, like Seattle or something like that? Trent Werner: No. No. No. We wanna get to a more business friendly state market, you know, southeastern region. I personally like the Midwest, but my partners don't. But you know, some a state or an area that is less tenant favored and, you know, because we get kinda handcuffed with the landlord tenant laws here. And this is not your concern. Will Matheson: Do you have a specific market you're targeting? Trent Werner: Yeah. I mean, we've looked at Georgia. We've looked at Florida. I'd say Georgia is probably higher on our list than Florida now, but Georgia too is one example. Will Matheson: Yeah. So one of the things I always tell people is it's better to have a network that's a mile or, I should say it, an inch wide and a mile deep than it is to have one that's a mile wide and an inch deep. I know plenty of groups that, you know, they'll get on every major brokerages mailing list and every deal. It could be in California. It could be in Omaha. It could be in the northeast. It could be in the southeast. They wanna underwrite it and talk to the broker and all these things. But speaking as a former broker and a guy who talks to brokers all the time, if you're just calling, you know, once a month, once every 3 months, it could even be once a week, and it's like, hey. I wanna know about this deal. Hey. I wanna know about this deal. Hey. I wanna know about this deal. But you don't own anything in the market. They're gonna forget about you. They're not gonna give you too much time a day, and that's not a knock on brokers. It's just they receive a ton of these calls. They receive a ton of these calls. So when we got started, you know, we were focused specifically on the Carolinas. And that focus, like I mentioned, that's what allowed us to get the deal in Georgia, and that's really what allowed us to get the deal in Alabama as well. Trent Werner: And I know earlier you mentioned, and I've heard this plenty of times, but when you're when you're new and just starting out, you know, a lot of brokers aren't going to give you the time of day unless you have favorable terms or you overpay for it. How are you able to accomplish that first deal in Carolina or in South Carolina without buying a bad deal? Will Matheson: So funny enough, the the first deal the first acquisition was in North or the 1st Carolinas acquisition, January 2019, that was in Boone, North Carolina, and I actually bought it with the help of my former boss and his team. They were the buy side broker on that deal. But the first acquisition we did in South Carolina, we bought for 1.15. I actually had it under contract at 1.25 a few months before we bought it, and I terminated the contract, and it came back around. So the first time, I think we were gonna overpay. But the honest answer is that deal was on the MLS. It wasn't on LoopNet. It wasn't with a major firm. Like, it wasn't with the CBREs or Cushman and Wakefields of the world. We we found it on the MLS, which I think is a great place to go. Sometimes, the properties will be terribly overpriced. Sometimes, they'll be priced right, but sometimes, they'll be underpriced. It's really about finding the least efficient point in the market, and most people who are trying to buy multifamily aren't looking on realtor.com. They're looking on LoopNet. They're looking at all the other sites. So, you know, that that obviously helped. But another thing that's worth pointing out is when you're dealing with your Berkadias, your CBREs, your JLLs, they're typically doing a whole, you know, full marketing process, tours, call to offers, everything like that. If you're dealing with, oftentimes, LoopNet or MLS or realtor.com, it's coming on a 1st come, 1st served basis. You know, like, they're not running a strict process, so you're often not put in that position where you need to outbid everybody else. You just need to submit an offer and start engaging with the seller. Trent Werner: You know, out of all the times that I've asked that question to people on on this show, that's the first time I have heard someone mention the MLS and and going to the MLS. And I don't know how I haven't said that before because we've actually purchased deals from the MLS in the same Oh, Will Matheson: you're trying to keep it a secret, you know? Trent Werner: Yeah. But that no. That's that is great insight. And it's something, like I said, we haven't talked about before. It's something we've done. But instead of just going straight to the the heavy hitters, the JLLs, the Cushman's, all those, Go find someone that could give you access to the local MLS and see what pops up. That's a great idea. Will Matheson: I mean, realtor.com will give you access to almost the whole of the MLS. The first two acquisitions we did in South Carolina were essentially listings from residential real estate agents or commercial agents at residential real estate firms, which you do run into from time to time. And I I think that's a pretty favorable place to be if you can bring a certain level of sophistication to it. I don't mean that as a knock, but, you know, it's, you know, like I said, I've seen plenty of properties there that do sell at good prices. We just happen to think that we got pretty good acquisitions on those. And to be honest, there was a period of for probably 4 plus years, I was signed up for, like, realtor.com alerts for 10 different markets throughout the like, in Raleigh, Charlotte, Savannah, Charleston, Charlottesville, Virginia. I had realtor.com notifications for all of those markets. And every now and then you'd see a good opportunity and you might not win it. But I wasn't going to see it otherwise. Trent Werner: Yeah. No. I like I said, that is that is great advice and a great strategy to deploy if you're wanting to get to new markets on that, you know, smaller unit count level. Well, I have a question for you in terms of your value add plans, and we don't have to hammer too far into it, but I know you invest in value add real estate. What does a typical value add plan look like for you on this, you know, 5 to 70 unit project that you've worked on in the past? Will Matheson: So I'll be I'll be pretty direct about that. We don't we don't reinvent the wheel for the most part. I know a lot of groups go in there and they're like, we need to completely redo the exteriors. We need to rename the properties. We need to do x, y, and z. When we were doing our early stuff, our approach was essentially, we're gonna buy the place, we're gonna focus pretty much all of our efforts on doing interior renovations, you know, new flooring, repainting it, countertops, appliances. Again, not not rocket science by any means because those are the things that are going to have the most they're going to instantly drive the value. It's, you know, you can tell when a property hasn't been renovated since 1976. You can tell, and it really drives rent a lot when you can go out there and show and show renters, like, hey, look, you know, you could have this old dated brown wood interior that looks like, you know, That 70 Show, or you could go with, you know, this nice new stainless steel, etcetera, etcetera, and it's gonna cost you $300 more or whatever the price difference may be. And people go for that, but, you know, we didn't reinvent the wheel on that stuff. And, you know, if we could avoid it, we were going to avoid doing like down to the studs, replumbing the whole property, things like that. Trent Werner: It's interesting. Well, and I mean, I agree completely with that. If a property hasn't been updated since, you know, the seventies, eighties, are you is there any focus on exterior and curb appeal and that kind of thing? Will Matheson: Some assets, we did that. Others, we didn't. I remember one property, you know, we we went out and we were like adding dog parks and we renamed it from Central Quarters to Central Oaks because I thought Central Quarter sounded like a prison. Yeah. But, no, by and large, I mean, when we were getting started, we were just very we were just very inter internally focused. Now I will be honest. You know? We probably would have been better off doing some of the exterior work. I've seen some of the assets we've sold. They've been repainted. I don't know how much they drove the rents, but property sure does look better from the street. Trent Werner: Yeah. Well, and I appreciate that because, you know, everyone has a little bit different strategy when it comes to value add, especially the construction piece. What about the operational side of value add in terms of management, you know, rubs, utilities, all that stuff? Were you were you focused at all on that? Will Matheson: I mean, we obviously cared about it. One of the I'm torn as to whether or not I regret this. Some days I do, some days I don't. From the very beginning, we were hiring 3rd party property managers, and there is a part of me, at least for the assets we owned in South Carolina, part of me wishes we'd under manage those because you would learn so much and, let's be honest, way to supplement your income, when you're getting started. But we always used 3rd party property managers. Not too much to say about that, really. Trent Werner: Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's I feel like it's kinda 5050 when you're starting out, whether you're hiring 3rd party. I know a lot of people that maybe aren't full time in this business yet. They are hiring 3rd party and that can build deals sometimes. That's why I brought it up to see if it obviously it didn't hurt you guys too bad to hire third party managers. Will Matheson: I mean, I fired people. You know? I fired property managers on these first few deals. They didn't all work out, but some did, some didn't. It is harder to find consistent management in a smaller space, primarily because people aren't on-site. You know, it's it's not a knock on any management company, but it's harder to manage stuff when you don't have on-site personnel dedicated to your property, which is essentially impossible, significantly below the 100 unit range. Trent Werner: Yeah. Well, I have another question for you, Will. Where is Matheson Capital at today, and where do you guys see yourself going here in the next 12 to 18 months? Will Matheson: So today, we have approximately $100,000,000 of assets under management. This year alone, we've done over $50,000,000 of acquisitions. Where do we plan on going in the next 12 to 18 months? The goal is always the same. The goal is always to do more. You know, we're analyzing properties every single day looking for the next opportunity. So the goal is just more. I I can't be any more specific than that. Trent Werner: Well, I appreciate your honesty. Will, where can people hear more from you, connect with you, and and find out more about Matheson Capital? Will Matheson: The best places to connect with me are probably the best one is probably LinkedIn, Will Matheson. I'm reasonably easy to find. And alternatively, if you go to our website which is www.mathcap.com, you know, you can join our mailing list. You if you do that, you'll get an instant email that essentially invites you to schedule a call. I try to connect with everybody who joins our mailing list so I can talk to them, see how we can potentially work together, what type of help we can give. So those are the best 2, either LinkedIn or mathcap.com. Trent Werner: Very nice. We'll make sure that those are linked down below. Will, thank you so much for taking the time to share your career in Matheson Capital's journey. Will Matheson: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Trent. Intro speaker: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Real Estate Professionals Investing podcast on Wynn, your community of investing knowledge for growth. We hope that this episode has increased your knowledge and added value to your path to freedom. If you would, please take a second to rate us so that we can get more great investors to interview. If you or someone that you know wants to be on, please visit westsideinvestors.com and fill out our form to be on the show. Thank you again, and enjoy your day.

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