WIN Ep160. The Truth About Private Money and Hard Money Lending in Real Estate with Jay Conner

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Trent Werner: Welcome back to another episode of the Deal Deep Dive segment on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Werner. In this segment, our featured guests will share their unique stories on a specific deal they've invested in. We will dive deep into finding the deal, financing the deal, writing an offer, and the due diligence. Do us a solid and smash that subscribe button, leave us a rating, and share this episode.

And now, let's dive deep. Welcome back to the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Werner. On today's episode, we're joined by Jay Conner. Jay is going to share about his real estate career and how he started in a manufactured home selling business that his dad started, and has since turned it into a private money lending business for over the last twenty two years.

Jay is going to share how he's closed over 500 deals and how he's maintained relationships with 47 different private money lenders. He'll also note that in twenty two years of doing this, he's never asked for money once. He's also gonna share how you can get started in this and some resources to help you build your business using private money lending. Now let's welcome Jay Conner. Alright.

We got Jay Conner joining the Westside Investors Network podcast today. Jay, thanks for joining us.

Jay Conner: Trent, oh my lands. I'm so excited to be here, and thank you so much for inviting me to come along and talk about my favorite subject and topic and that being private money because that's had more of an impact on our real estate investing business since we started all the way back in 02/2003.

Trent Werner: Now there's so many different directions we can go with this conversation in terms of private money. Before we get into all those different avenues that we're gonna talk about today, I wanna hear how Jay Conner got into real estate to begin with. 02/2003 is, I guess, twenty two years ago now. So you've been in the business quite a while, and I wanna hear what got you into real estate in the first place.

Jay Conner: Sure. Well, it's a good question. So I I was raised in the mobile home business. Now out there in Oregon, I don't know if you know what mobile homes are, but, they're they're very popular in the South. People some people called them back in the day wobbly boxes, trailers, mobile homes, manufactured housing when we got all fancy.

But, anyway, that was my father's business. By the way, he's 91 years old and still developing real estate. I wanna be like him when I grow up. But at one time, my father had the largest retailing company of manufactured homes, mobile homes in the nation. So I grew up in the environment of helping people, purchase affordable housing.

Well, in 02/2002, '2 thousand '3, that entire industry fell out of favor with Wall Street, which means there was no financing to speak of available for a consumer to finance the product and purchase it. So we didn't have any way to to sell it, really. So we woke up one morning and had 22,000,000 of wholesale inventory and no way to sell it. So we almost had to file bankruptcy, but we didn't. We worked out with our vendors and we eventually sold off the inventory.

So it's a whole lot more fun starting up a company than it is shutting down a company. So, that's when it was in 02/2003. I knew if I ever got out of, manufactured housing, I wanted to get into single family homes. And so, that's that's why I did and, and as

Intro speaker: of today, we've flipped, a little over 500 houses. Here in our local area, we're in

Jay Conner: a very, very small market. Only two counties here in Eastern North Carolina. And we don't do a lot of deals, we do two to three transactions a month, but our average profit per transaction right now is $82,000. And I don't share that from a a place of ego or bragging at all. The reason I share that is that makes an argument for the fact that there's a lot of advantages to being a smaller market where you can dominate the market, right?

As I say our total target market is only 40,000 people or so. So we we dominate the market. I'd rather be a big fish you know in a small pond than in a city somewhere competing with a bunch of other real estate investors. So anyway, it was a change of career, change of industry, so that's why we switched over back in 02/2003.

Trent Werner: And you said you that you you kinda knew that you wanted to get into single family homes. Was there anything that you did in the manufactured housing space that maybe nudged you aside from shutting down the company, but made you want to get into single family homes when you were still doing manufactured?

Jay Conner: Absolutely. So, ten years before we, got out of manufactured housing, my wife, her name's Carol Joy. We've got really, really good friends in New Bern, North Carolina, which is still here in Eastern North Carolina, and their names are Craig and Kim. Anyway, they were getting ready to build a house and, good friends. We go to church with them and that type of thing.

And so this was all the way back in 1993. Well, they didn't have any money for a down payment. So Kim's father was a real estate investor for decades down in Florida. And he said, well, look y'all. What I'll do is I'll come up to North Carolina and we'll find a fixer upper.

He says I'll buy it and you all do the sweat equity, on nights and weekends and then we'll sell it and you can keep the profit and that'll be your seed money for you to build your house. And so that's what they did. He came up here, they bought a fixer upper upper or through Kim's father, and they fixed it up, sold it. And, Trent, they pocketed $30,000 in ninety days. And I said, wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm out here on the Sales Center trying to sell a single wide manufactured home, mobile home, and get a profit of $3,000, and they're making $30,000. I'm going, I like that program better. So I heard their story ten years prior to, closing the company for manufactured homes, but I I already knew.

I mean, I'd already started reading books, and I was just, you know, and, you know, and this was before the HGTV days

Intro speaker: as

Jay Conner: to where it became, you know, so popular type of thing. So, yeah, I had been thinking about it before ten years before I did it.

Trent Werner: Was there any was there any deals or work that you did in manufactured housing that gave you the skills to then start flipping houses right when you wanted to?

Jay Conner: Well, I thought I did. So my first piece of advice to your audience is don't start in this business the way I did. So I was relying on my business sense and experience that I'd had in manufactured housing. I said, well, you know, it's it's all housing. I mean, you know, I I I can do this.

And so so I started in this just by reading books. I didn't get my first mentor or coach in this business until 02/2009, to tell you the truth. Six years. And there's I'm oh my word. I made so many costly mistakes.

I mean, losing hundreds of thousands of dollars that if I had been coached and, you know, worked with somebody that had already knew the business and and knew where the the minefields were, I I would have been so much further ahead. So, yeah, my most valuable lessons are the ones that cost me dearly.

Trent Werner: So you started you started this this flipping business after closing down manufactured homes. You obviously you heard the story of your friends getting, you know, a a boost from the dad or the father-in-law. And where did this whole private money concept begin once you started flipping homes?

Jay Conner: Right. So, I I should be clear to make sure everybody understands when we say private money in this context, I'm not talking about hard money. You got a lot of hard money lenders out there in the industry that call themselves private money lenders, but there's a big difference. A hard money lender is typically a broker of money that has gone out and raised private money from investors to invest in their fund, and then they turn around and loan that money out to us real estate investors. That's a hard money lender which they now call themselves private money.

And by the way, I'm not knocking hard money lenders. Some of my best friends are hard money lenders. In fact, they use my techniques to raise private money to get people to invest in their funds. Right? It's all the same money.

It's just a matter of what they're investing in. So how did I get how did I get into this world? Well, I backed into it, Trent. I backed into this world of private money. And here's what happened.

The first six years that I was in this business, from 02/2003 to February, the only thing I knew to do, Trent, was go to the local bank, get on my hands and knees, and beg and sell and, you know, pull up my skirt so the banker could look at my personal assets and pull my credit score and give financial statements and a colonoscopy, you know, before all was said and done to get my loans. Well and so that worked okay. That worked okay. I missed out on some deals because I had a limited line of credit at the bank, so I had to pass on some deals, you know, that that never feels good. So anyway, those first six years, I just relied on commercial lending, institutional lending at the local bank.

And so again, that was from 02/2003 to 02/2009. Well, here's what happened. In February, I called him a banker. His name was Steve. By the way, Trent, I know you will be shocked to see that we actually still have handsets.

Most people don't even know what a handset is with a cord attached to it. But, anyway, I picked up my my landline telephone, and I called Steve, my banker. Now Steve and I have been doing business together for six years. He had funded a lot of my deals. And I called him up and I told him about these two houses that I had under contract that I needed him to fund from my line of credit.

And these two houses represented over $100,000 in projected profit. And I learned like that over the telephone from Steve that my line of credit at the bank had been closed with no notice whatsoever to me. And Steve tells me that, and I said, Steve, what in the world are you talking about? Why is my line of credit closed? We got a great relationship.

Always made my payments on time. I got a great credit score right around 800. Why are you closing my line of credit? He said, Jay, don't you know there's a global financial crisis going on right now? I said, no.

But you just gave me a financial crisis because I don't have a way to fund these two deals that I've got under contract. And back in those days, you couldn't get your earnest money back, here in North Carolina. And so he says, well, we're not loaning money out to real estate investors anymore because of the global financial crisis. So I hung up the phone, I sat here, and I asked myself a question. Trent, now I want to share this question that I asked myself with your audience because this question is so powerful, it will help anyone fix any problem they got that they've got going on.

I don't care if it's financial, career, business, personal relationships, health, doesn't matter. By the way, Trent, these people running around saying, oh, every problem is an opportunity. I wanna throw up. I didn't have an opportunity. I had a problem.

Right? So I need help getting my problem fixed. Now, you're gonna find out in a minute, this whole problem did turn into an opportunity because if I didn't have this problem, you and I wouldn't even be visiting today here on your show. So here's the question that I asked myself. I said, Jay, who, there you go, who do you know that can help you with your problem?

When I asked myself that question, I immediately thought of Jeff Blankenship who lived in Greensboro, North Carolina at the time. And he and his wife, they're great friends of mine and Carol Joy. And, he was investing in single family houses in Greensboro, North Carolina at the time. So I called him up. I told him what had just happened with me and my banker conversation.

He said, well, Jay, welcome to the club. I said, what club is that? He said, that's the club of having your bank shut down your line of credit. My bank shut me down last week. I said, well, Jeff, how are you gonna fund your real estate deals?

He said, well, have you ever heard of private money and private lending as to how an individual can loan money out to you, from their investment capital? You just do business with individuals and they fund your deals? I said, no. I never heard of that. He said, have you ever heard of self directed IRAs that allows an individual that's got a retirement account to move it over, and then they can loan you money, and they can earn unlimited interest per year either tax deferred or tax free.

I said, Jeff, I have got no idea what you're talking about. So he told me about private money and what he was doing and what he was going to do and and self directed IRAs and etcetera. And so after he and I talked, I did some research. I did some studying. And then as a result, I was able to raise $2,150,000 in less than ninety days just from my own network, my community.

And you know what's interesting, Trent? Since that time, I've yet, even through today, I've yet to ask anybody for money. I've never pitched a deal. I've never, I've I've no chasing, no begging, no selling, no persuading. And people ask me all the time, they say, Jay, how in the world have you got 47 private lenders, which we have now.

How do you have 47 private lenders and you never ask them for money? And how do you get your deals, funded without pitching the deal? And here's the secret sauce. You see, we separate the conversations of teaching. There's the important point.

You see, I put on my teacher hat which says private money teacher and I simply just, so first thing I did was I put my program together that I was going to teach without having any deals attached to them. So, I decided what interest rate I was going to pay, 8%, been paying the same thing since 02/2009. What interest rate I was going to pay, what the length of each note was going to be, when someone got involved, the frequency of payments, the maximum loan to after repaired value. And so put the program together for me to just share with people that I go to church with, rotary club, etcetera.

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Jay Conner: And so I went about teaching this opportunity. I put on private lender, a luncheon, raised 969,000 at just one private lender luncheon with no deal attached to it. So then when I'd have a deal for my private lenders to fund, I'd call them up with what I call the good news phone call. So here's the exact script as to what I say when I've got a deal for my private lenders to fund without asking for money. And here's this.

Let's say, Trent, let's say you're one of my private lenders. Let's say you've got you've told me you've got a hundred and $50,000 in your retirement funds that you're not happy with, and you want to invest those. And so I've introduced you to a self directed IRA company. You've moved that money over, and you're waiting for the good news phone call. So I call you up.

I say, hey, Trent. I've got great news for you. I can now put your money to work. I've got a house under contract to purchase with an after repaired value of $200,000. The funding required is $150,000, which matches up to what you have.

And closing is gonna be next Thursday, so you'll need to wire your funds to my real estate attorney's trust account, by next Wednesday. I'm going to email I'm going to ask my real estate attorney to email email you the wiring instructions. End of conversation. Let's unpack that for a second. I didn't ask you if you wanted to fund the deal.

Of course you want to fund the deal. You have been relying on me to put your money to work that you moved over to the self directed IRA company at my recommendation. So again, people ask me all the time, they say, Jay, I'm fear of rejection. How can you be how can you have any fear of rejection if you're not asking anybody for anything? You're leading with a servant's heart.

You're teaching them about this. Not one of my 47 private lenders today ever heard about private money or private lending until I shared it with them and taught them about it. And so, that's the process. Right? You know, desperation has got a smell to it.

The worst time to be raising money is when you need it for a deal. You know, something drives me crazy, Trent, and I'm gonna hand it back over to you. Something drives me crazy, and and I don't know. I'm taking a risk here. I might be getting ready to say something that you don't agree with.

But let me ask you a question. Have you ever heard one of the gurus or speakers on the platform or stage that's teaching new real estate investors? Have you ever heard them say, oh, just get the deal under contract. The money will show up. You ever heard of that?

Trent Werner: Yeah. Too many times.

Jay Conner: That drives me crazy. Where's the money gonna show up? I mean, they'll say, oh, the money finds good deals. How is the money I mean, the money ain't got, you know, lips and ears and a brain. How's the money gonna find good deals?

I mean, that's the most stupid thing I ever heard in my life. That's why I say, look. It don't take long at all. Get the money lined up first and think about how much more confident, how many more offers you're gonna make when you've got hundreds of thousands of dollars burning a hole in your pocket to make offers. Anyway, that was a long answer to a short question.

Trent Werner: So I I have a question that kinda encompasses everything that you just talked about for an a newer real estate investor. You just mentioned a lot of people are taught, go find a deal, go find a deal. The money will just poof show up in an account to help you fund it. I've heard that plenty of times, and I know that that's not always the case because you can find deals, but if you don't have any money to close on it, well, then you can't close on it. So as a new

Jay Conner: And and and they'll say buy creatively. They'll say, you know, buy with seller finance and buy subject to the existing note. I've done a lot of that. Right? Mhmm.

But after reviewing thousands of property lead sheets and negotiating with, you know, all these sellers, my statistics show only 13% of for sale by owners will sell creatively. What do the other 87% require? All the money.

Trent Werner: Absolutely. So for for a newer investor, I know a lot of people will think or hear or are taught, you know, just just start telling people what you're doing. Tell people what you're doing. Tell them that you're gonna flip houses. Tell them you're gonna invest in whatever fashion.

And then people start doing that, right? And if they're telling people that without any experience, what would you say to them if, you know, I'm telling someone, hey, I'm going to go invest and flip houses, just be on the be on the standby, but I don't have any experience doing that. How likely are those people, those private money lenders going to invest with that person? And what would you tell that person that might be in that situation? You know, do I start looking for deals?

Do I partner with people to get more experience? You know, what would you say to someone like that?

Jay Conner: That's a that's a great question, and I get it all the time. So there's more than one answer. The first answer is people are not really investing in your deals. They're really not loaning money on your deals. What they're doing is they're investing in you.

That's what they're doing. They're investing in you. And if they're not if they're not loaning you money or investing, that's because for whatever reason they don't trust you. Right? For whatever they don't trust that you can do it.

So the first thing that you can do as a new real estate investor is lean on and leverage the successes that you've already had. I mean, people, particularly in your own warm market, if they know you, they know if you've been successful at what you've been doing. Right? So you can leverage the past experience you've got in whatever kind of business, that you've been in. Secondly, another comment or answer that I've that I would tell a potential private lender that's not comfortable, and here's a quote, here's a writer downer, and that is, if I don't pay you, because that's what they're concerned about, right?

If I don't pay you the property does. Now, what does that mean? You see, you're not going to be borrowing any unsecured money. You can legally, but for goodness sakes don't do it. You want to give a mortgage or a deed of trust depending on the state that you're in.

You want to collateralize that note and you don't want to borrow more than 75% of the after repaired value. I didn't say 75% of the purchase price. 75% of the after repaired value. That's why I always bring home a big check when I buy and take none of my own money to the closing table ever. I mean, the question is, who wants to get paid to buy houses?

Right? We always bring on big checks when we buy. So there's one answer if I don't pay you the property. It does because it's a conservative loan to value. And then thirdly, if you're brand new, for goodness sakes, now as I as I mentioned earlier, don't be out there on an island by yourself.

I mean, you wanna be you wanna be partnered up either with a coach, a mentor, or somebody right there in your local area, they can hold your hand as you're doing those initial deals. So if you have partnered up with a coach or a mentor, like, you know, I've had thousands of, students and, mastermind members and etcetera. And for those newbies, what do they do? They leverage the business relationship that they have with me. And so since we're working together, they can when someone asks them what kind of experience do you have, you can say, well, my business partner, Jay Connor, has rehabbed and flipped over 500 houses and has got 47 private lenders with 8 and a half million dollars.

And he and I are working together on every deal that we're doing. So, if you like me to introduce you to Jay, I can introduce you to Jay. So, leverage a relationship that you've got, and quite frankly, you need to have that relationship anyway.

Trent Werner: Yeah. I appreciate that answer, and I think a lot of people that are listening to this and maybe want to branch out into a new niche of real estate, especially if it's flipping houses, are gonna take what your answer was there and and put that in their pocket because that is a fear that a lot of newer investors have. You know, they keep running in circles.

Jay Conner: It's a common sense fear. I mean, they're they're gonna ask themselves a question, who in the world is gonna invest with me or loan me money, and I've never done a deal? You should be asking yourself that question. And, of course, I just gave the answer.

Trent Werner: So, Jay, after twenty two years of of flipping houses, what are the what are the best ways to make money in flipping houses using private equity? Obviously, you wanna buy it for less than you sell it for and and and those things. But for someone that, you know, maybe that's the only way that they think that you can make money, are there other ways that you can make money using private equity to acquire properties and and flip them?

Jay Conner: Absolutely. That's a great question. So you number one, you don't have to flip. I mean, right now, what I'm paying my private lenders an interest is less than what the commercial rate is at the bank. Right?

I've got a friend that's been with, the bank here in Morehead City for, shoot, over twenty five years. He just closed a commercial loan last week at 8.1%. I'm paying my private lenders eight percent. Right? So you can buy and hold.

You don't have to flip. I've sold a lot of houses over the past twenty two years on our rent to own or lease purchase program, and those houses are funded with private money. So the question is, what's the positive cash flow that you can make per month between what you're paying your private lender in interest and what you can bring in. And, of course, when you sell creatively on a rent to own or lease purchase, you'll be able to collect a large non refundable option fee as well. Now how else can you use private money?

And here's a great strategy. You can combine two strategies together in order to make a deal work. Here's what I mean. Let's say that a FSBO for sale by owner has agreed to sell to you subject to the existing note, which means they have agreed to sell you their house, leave their mortgage in their name, and you're agreeing to make their payments or bring their payments current or whatever. And you say, who in the world would do that?

A distressed seller that needs debt relief. I've done it many, many times. So what you can do is if there is equity in the property, you can purchase it subject to the existing note. Then, if you if it needs some repairs, if it needs some past due payments brought current, or if it's got equity in it and you just want to pull some cash out, you can borrow private money in second position. So I've got a lot of private lenders in junior lien positions, not all of them are in first position, right?

I use smaller amounts of money such as rehab money or whatever in second position. So, now you would have two notes on that property. In this example you would have the original mortgage in first position that the seller has in their name. Then you would have private money from your private lender in second position. But, here's what you want to be careful about.

Now, we need to take a look at what's called the total loan to value. Total loan to value. And that total loan to value, again, I don't want to exceed 75%. So, just for just for an example, right? Just for e ease, just for easy figuring.

Let's say that I got a house that's got an after repaired value of $200,000 Let's say that I buy it for $125,000 which I could all day long if it needs rehab. And so, let's say the rehab is only $25,000 which is a small rehab. So, they owe a hundred and $25,000 right? They sold it to me for their payoff, for their payoff amount of a hundred and 25,000. That mortgage is in first position.

So, now I can come over here to a private lender and I can borrow a little $25,000 note, put them in second position. Now, I'm going to add the 125 to the 25. Now, I got a total loan to value of 75% because my total amount of loans that I have secured by that same property is $150,000, which is 75% of the after repair value.

Trent Werner: So when when some when someone is doing a subject to to where that first loan is gonna remain in the seller's name, are you able as the buyer to make those payments directly, or do you have to pay the seller to then pay the bank when it's in that first position?

Jay Conner: I'm not relying on the seller to make the payments to the bank. Tell me if particularly if they're behind on their payments, if they couldn't make them prior to them, why am I gonna trust them with with my money? So no. We'll take ownership, so that deed will actually come into our company entity name. And then, we have all the correspondence changed to our mailing address, so we get all the monthly statements, etcetera.

And we also have the seller sign what's called an authorization to release, which gives me and my team the authority to talk to their lender or bank if we need to in the future on their behalf. Authorization to release.

Trent Werner: Okay. That was just a, a curiosity question that I've personally been asked before, but I've never done a subject to myself. So I figured I'd ask the professional and the expert, the expert on this one.

Jay Conner: Sure.

Trent Werner: So, Jay, out of the handful of different strategies that you've mentioned, what would you say is your bread and butter or your favorite one to leverage private money with?

Jay Conner: In order what's my favorite strategy in order

Trent Werner: I guess deal yeah. Purchase strategy, whether it's subject to seller carry, you know, wholesale off market, on market. Do you have a favorite kind of bread and butter way of purchasing?

Jay Conner: Well, I'll answer it this way. I'll tell you how I'm getting most of my deals right now and, and how we're funding them. So most of our deal flow that's coming in is from a Google pay per lead, not pay per click. So I've got, five or so different vendors, companies that I pay per lead. My average lead cost right now is around $300 per lead that's coming into us from individual owners that are going on Google and searching for, you know, buy my house fast or sell my house faster, any of those 75 different phrases.

On average, it's taking about 10 of those leads in order to actually close a purchase. So we got about $3,000 invested in marketing on average to get a to for each deal. But who cares if your average profit is $82,000. Right? I mean, I'll spend as many $3,000 as I can to to get that return.

So that's the deal flow coming in. And then, as I say, on about 15% of them or so, we'll buy creatively and then put private money in second position if we need to. And the rest of them, we're just paying all cash for private money.

Trent Werner: Okay. That's that was a good answer to a a very unclear question that I that I threw you away.

Jay Conner: No worries.

Trent Werner: So are you only and I know you're in a the Eastern North Carolina market. Are you only targeting on your Google leads, are you only targeting that market specifically, or are you looking elsewhere as well?

Jay Conner: For my own deals, yes. Right here in my local area. But I also JV and partner, you know, with my mastermind members and and some of my coaching clients.

Trent Werner: Okay. That makes sense. And if someone wanted to hear more or maybe learn more from you in terms of a mastermind or coach, how would they do that?

Jay Conner: Trent, I am so glad you asked because I'm so excited about my brand new private money challenge, which people can read about at privatemoneychallenge.com, private money challenge Com. And what is that? Well, that's a series of seven videos that I just recently recorded, and each video is like fifteen to twenty minutes long, not long at all. And it really does a great deep dive into explaining eve even more details about what private money is. I've got scripts in there as to what you actually say to potential private lenders.

How do you start conversations? Right? I mean, how do you even bring it up? And so, we go into all that. So, I invite you, if you're listening here to Trent's show, go to www.privatemoneychallenge.com private money challenge Com, and, and I I'd love to interact with you there.

Trent Werner: Perfect. And we'll make sure we get the link down in the the show notes below. Jay, thank you so much for sharing about private money today and your vast real estate knowledge and career.

Jay Conner: Trent, thank you so much for having me. God bless you.

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